E-Surfer Mag

DIY propeller / impeller

Continuing the discussion from DIY components from MHZ:

WNT:

Hi Amberjet, but Mhz sells this impeller https://www.mhz-watercraft.com/shop/en/jets/636/spare-impeller-jet-58-58mm-diameter-spare-part?c=110, Virus produces this impeller https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25ZmHNp7-I0&t=8s 1 and VeFoil tests this impeller https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_q6uXC3lyk&t=50s. All these impellers are very similar. Why are you preparing the impeller according to Archymed’s bolt?

ambejet:

WNT agrees. All the screws you replaced are similar. My screw is very different from them. In my opinion, Archimedes’ screw is optimal in my project. Tests will show who is right.

Lampuga, LiftFoil, and others have forced water cooling. I eliminated forced cooling. Time will tell who is right.

LiftFoil, Virus and others have a planetary gear. I eliminated the planetary gear. Time will tell who is right.

WNT

Hi, but Mhz, VeFoil and Virus do not use the gearbox for the jet propulsion. They use direct drive, eg Mhz here https://www.mhz-watercraft.com/media/image/90/8e/f5/[email protected] 1 Believe me Archimed’s screw is obsolete, only used such as a pump or a water turbine. Therefore your test jet propulsion with Archymed screw will not succeed. You just lose money, time and success. The e-foil speed with Archimed screw will always be low, inefficient.

amberjet:

Virus uses a planetary gear

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Vefoil too.

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And this is a modified Archimedes screw.

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MHZ uses a powerful motor (22kW). Large diameter = high torque and does not have to have a planetary gear.
LiftFoil, Fliteboard and others use planetary gearboxes

WNT:

Hi,

Mhz has a very powerful engine because e-surf needs high performance. E-foil needs a weaker motor because the battery has less capacity and the e-foil has less resistance over the water.

The Virus uses two drive systems, one drive with a conventional propeller gearbox, a second drive without a gearbox.

VeFoil does not really use the transmission for the latest prototype drive. Please carefully review all his videos. I also think that VeFoil is the only designer in the world who is developing the VeFoil drive prototype in the right way. However, his impeller (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_q6uXC3lyk) will need to be optimized a bit.

But your impeller can not be optimized, a high quality impeller can not be made of plastic and printed on a 3D printer, and it can not be Archyméd’s screw or its modification.

amberjet:

I’m sorry WNT but I and continuing for several days will be tests.
For testing, a screw from a 3D printer is excellent.

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WNT:

I have been researching and developing Propellers for many years when you were not yet in the world. I recently printed a highly efficient propeller on a 3D printer and high quality plastic. But unfortunately, the test could not be done because the blades bend under the pressure of the water. The leading edges and drain edges must be special in shape but the 3D printer can not print. The impeller must therefore be made of high quality aluminum (titanium, steel, etc.). Trust me finally, please, please.

amberjet:

WNT why should I trust you as soon as you criticize and do not offer anything in return. Show us what you can do master. Suggest a water jet propeller project without a planetary gear. If you have been doing so for so many years, propose a drive that is better than mine. Better than Virus. Better than LiftFoil. Better than FliteBoard.
Show us the best drive. Show me how it’s done.

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Are these screws according to your WNT design ???

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VeFoil Thank you. I hope that the water will look good too. :slight_smile:
My impeller has a diameter of 68mm. Everything is printed 3D. This is not an aluminum cast. The aluminum pipe is 64mm in diameter and helps the engine to cool

Wow, cool that that is bigger than it looks. We believe the sweet spot for a direct drive impeller is between 56mm - 70mm. depending on the number of blades 3 or 4, pitch, and nozzle characteristics they should all work.

What motor are you using? still a 56mm or something larger? It will take a lot of torque to crank around a 68mm impeller.

Not sure if you have picked up on this yet or not, but Jet drives have LESS thrust that a prop & reduction gear setup. So be sure your board is extra wide board for easy planing, and larger front wing.

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Yes, I am using a 56mm diameter motor.
Other problems will come out during testing.

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Great, E-Surfer, this new theme is very much needed not only for DIY, but also for commercial e-foil, e-surf and e-sup. Extremely expensive engines, ESC and batteries also need high performance impellers / propellers. But they are not sold anywhere, and nobody knows what they look like. This new topic may help solve this problem.

Thanks @WNT. Do you have any thoughts on the following?

Unfortunately I do not care about batteries. I deal only with the research and development of impellers, propellers, …

You are exactly right. Props, impellers, motor specifications, battery pack voltage and battery management specifications are the key to having a long lasting, quality product as you will all know. A 56mm motor will easily spin these propellers/impellers as long as the specifications and the voltages are right. Expensive high end motors keeps specifications consistent, whereas cheap motors have an inconsistency in their specifications. I don’t usually comment on any other peoples products as we are all using different systems. Ours is completely different as we use a fin drive system that is down in the water with a large front opening and a small back outlet and a variation inside the tube that makes it 25 to 30% more efficient than a jet. We did the testing over 12 years ago when we first started and still use the same system today.

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Hi Chris, your design is unique and looks great, but its not the design or power level we can use for our build.

Yes its proven the larger the prop and less blades the more efficient they are. We have chosen impeller system for many reasons which we feel greatly out weights riding for a few extra minutes on battery pack. We don’t want to use a prop system that is exposed/open at the front or at the back. Open props are easy to kick by mistake, and open front impeller can jam with floating debris easier.

The fact that our entire system in encapsulated within a aluminum tube it is much strong then plastic housings as it’s near bullet proof and can take a beating from rocks and renters etc… Its a tube with both ends begin round so when you fall on it or kick it by mistake, there are no edges or brittle parts hit and break.

Our board and efoil motor designs are specifically for easier learning and will work very well for rental fleets while being as safe as possible with the capability to foil 20-30km/h hour easily, and eSup on our custom board without a foil at 10-15km/h

Besides safety being our #1 concern, our #2 focus is on our simple no maintenance direct drive design.

We can achieve any power level we or anyone else requires with our fin drive system. Our fin drive system is safe as the propeller is inside a housed tube. No fingers can get inside. We have no sharp edges and our fin tube is made out of a special material that is extremely strong, as strong as alloy. We have also had this system made in alloy but it is better in the material we use. Our fin system has been beaten up over the rocks a number of times throughout the years in big swell and has come out unscathed thus far. Our unique fin design (patented) with a big opening and small outlet with a couple of unique features internally and relatively no noticeable drag has proven to be successful long term in low and high speed products. I wish you all the success with your product, it looks pretty good. Look forward to seeing them on the market.

Thank you WNT. This is a very valuable declaration.

The tests will take place in the coming days. ESC is dedicated to my board and is in production. Elektronik has prepared a new version of ESC. I have to wait a few days.
I will reveal the results of the tests here.

Hi, everyone,

hydrodynamics of e-foil is very complex. In order for the e-foil to have good parameters, the following two conditions must be met: a high-quality propulsion system and the right shape of the front lift wing.

I have not seen an e-foil that meets both conditions. This is probably due to the fact that e-foils (prototypes of e-foils) are made by constructors who are enthusiastic about water sports, not hydrodynamics experts.

Both conditions (a high-quality propulsion system and the right shape of the front lift wing) will be met if the designer does not rely solely on luck and coincidence, but asks for help from experts.

The new version of ESC is not ready. I am waiting.

WNT you write about obvious things without bringing anything new to the topic.

I’m still waiting for the test results of your impeller, it’s been a month.

WNT have been in this forum for several months. You did not bring anything to the discussion. You are not useful for forum members.

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I have written many important information here. The last one was a few minutes ago and is important to everyone. So once again:

A highly efficient impeller for e-foil can not be made of plastic on a 3D printer !!!

a ha ha ha. As an expert, you have a very comprehensive and professional knowledge.
You share it very generously and you support the construction of efoil efficiently. Without You, no efoil will arise. :joy::rofl::joy:

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Yes, I am willing to assess here hydrodynamic shape of each propeller and the impeller (for e-surf, e-foil and e-sup), if there will be given picture 3D, 2D or web link.